THRIVING DISABLED ADULTS: The Poetic Travels of a Disabled Inclusive Educator with Nicole Demos

Hello Brave Friends! On this Thriving Disabled Adults episode, #208, we are speaking to Thriving Disabled Adult, Nicole Demos.

In this conversation, Susanna Peace Lovell interviews Nicole (Nix) Demos, who shares about her journey growing up in Greece in the 1970’s with cerebral palsy. She also generously shares her experiences being rejected and embraced by different cultures, living in various countries, and her evolution into an inclusive educator. She discusses the challenges she faced in accessing care and support, the power of poetry as a means of expression, and the importance of relationships in navigating her disability. Nix emphasizes the need for advocacy and understanding in society, while also finding joy in her connection with her dog and the unconditional love it brings. The conversation concludes with a call to action for listeners to engage with and support the disabled community, fostering a sense of belonging and empowerment for all. 

Nicole Demos, a disabled inclusive educator for over 32 years, holds an M.A in Education and an M.Ed in International Counseling. Nicole worked in Greece, the US, Russia and the UK before teaching Learning Support at the International School of Helsinki. She has presented workshops on educational trends, and participated in podcasts and blogs. As an active member of the Diversability Leadership Collective and SENIA Europe, Nicole strives to educate on the importance of inclusion, disability identity, advocacy, equity and belonging. Since leaving the International School of Helsinki, Nicole has recently discovered a love for writing and has published poetry online here and here.This has led to her writing this poem to be included in a Danish architectural press publication highlighting diversity and inclusion. In addition Nicole has also been nominated to Diversability’s 2024 D-30 Disability Impact List for her continued efforts.  Her hobbies include reading, singing, baking, flower rescue and spending time with friends and her toy poodle Sisu.  

Find Nicole Demos: on Instagram here. on LinkedIn here. on Facebook

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Transcript

 Welcome to Brave Together Parenting, an empowering and truly helpful podcast for the parents of children with disabilities and all unique needs.  On some level, subconsciously, I knew that I was disabled, but there was always this need to be like everyone else. to fit in, to not rock the boat, to not ask for help, to not advocate for my needs.

So I think the poetry came from that. The poetry was like, you know what? This is just going to be my release. 

Hello brave friends. I am Susanna Peace Lovell, a brave mama, an author, a life coach, an advocate for disability families. You might also recognize my voice from our Ask Us Anything.  On today's episode, we are hearing about the experience of another thriving disabled adult introducing Nicole Demos, also known as Nix, a disabled inclusive educator for over 32 years.

Nicole holds both an M. A. in Education and an M. E. D. in International Counseling. She worked in Greece, the United States, Russia, and the U. K. before teaching Learning Support at the International School of Helsinki in Finland, where she currently resides. Nicole strives to educate on the importance of inclusion, disability identity, advocacy, equity, and belonging.

Since leaving the International School of Helsinki, Nicole has recently discovered a love for writing and has had her poetry published. Find links to her poetry and more about her in our show notes. I would like to highlight that we are talking to Nicole in a particularly charged moment in time, both for her as well as the larger disabled world community.

We make these episodes to give you hope for what is possible for your loved ones, but it is also important to honor our guests exactly where they are and paint a realistic picture of the challenges our disabled children and adults Transcripts continue to face all over the world. Nicole holds nothing back and is very honest and vulnerable about where she's at today in this moment in history.

We are so honored by her willingness to share openly about her struggles, her passions and her joys on this very special episode. A quick reminder to please rate and review this podcast, share episodes with your friends, follow us on social media, and check out our episode highlights posted weekly on our We Are Brave Together YouTube channel.

Now, please enjoy my conversation with the energizing and bravely vulnerable, Nyx. 

Yay. Hi, Nick. Hi, Nick. How are you? This is going to be such an informative, delicious conversation as I've been getting to know Nick's mostly over email and also through her social channels, also LinkedIn. And so I would like. To welcome next Demos today from her home in Helsinki, Finland. Thank you for having me.

Yes. Did we figure out how many hours apart we are? I feel like we're 10 hours apart, 10 hours apart. Okay. So I'm in the morning and Nick's is in the evening. I'm in the evening. So here we are. We make this work grateful for technology, for us to be able to have this conversation and to see each other for sure. 

So I would love to start off. By asking you about you, if you could tell us a little bit about yourself, your background, your biography, kind of what you're doing now. I know you've been all over the world. And so I would love our listeners to hear about. Nix. Yep. Okay. Um, well, my name is Nix. I was originally born in the United States, moved overseas with my mother, who's from the Netherlands, and my father, who's Greek American, moved to Greece when I was a year old, just because my parents didn't like the fact that my dad was working all the time.

And You know, it wasn't there the way he would have wanted to. And it was my father's dream to always go back to where his family was from. And it meant that my mom was closer to her family in the Netherlands. So packed everything up at the age of one and a half. and moved clear across the world. I have Cerebral Palsy, Spastic Diplegia, to be more exact.

I've had it since birth, although it was not diagnosed till about two, three years old. I was born premature, three months, but at that point in time,  you know, there wasn't much research, there wasn't much out there, you know, in the 70s as far as, you know, what could be the issues developmentally from, you know, What I appeared, everything was fine, but in hindsight, if you look at my baby pictures, you can tell that something is not normal.

And I hate to use that word because,  you know, what does it mean? You know? Um, so anyway, it became quite evident to my parents that my mobility was, was somehow hampered as I was. Starting to grow up and do things. And we were living in Greece at the time, which is a beautiful country with fabulous, warm people.

But the attitude for people who have any sort of visible or non visible disability was that you don't exist. And as a result of you not existing, you should not be alive. So, essentially, my father, who reached out to second, third cousins to find a doctor, you know, because they were concerned, you know, what's, what's wrong, our daughter isn't walking.

The doctor who was a family friend of my dad's cousin refused to give my parents a diagnosis. My father and mother both had to just say, look, you know, please tell us this is our kid. We want to do what's right. And they basically said, Throw her away and either put her in an insane asylum because that was the only way forward or you just  so  Moving from that my parents then decided.

Okay, let's go back to the United States and figure out What this is, went to Boston Children's Hospital. That's quite well known for, you know, a lot of medical issues. My father's family was from, is from Massachusetts, so it made logical sense, was indeed diagnosed with spastic diplegia and was given the opposite of that negative prognosis of you know, get rid of her, in quotes, and that there, you know, there would be some struggles, but we as a family would need to decide.

What our next steps would be. So then from there, we then went to the Netherlands to get a second opinion, but also to see if treatment wise, it was okay for us to remain in Greece because my father being an educator was like, I don't. Want to put my daughter into a special school because that was all that was available in 1970 not that he had anything against them but he just felt that I had a lot more to offer and He didn't want the label to become all of me.

Yeah, if that makes any sense, so So moving forward, my parents decided that yes, we were going to stay in Greece and make it work in a country that was not accessible, was not open, was very closed minded in terms of, you know, what you do when you're different. And so I grew up in Greece. I attended an international, American international school from kindergarten through to grade 12.

I was given a scholarship to attend at first. So had to navigate. You know, lack of, you know, no use of elevator, stairs, no ramps, difficulties getting physical therapy, the various equipment. Thankfully, we had doctors in the Netherlands and, you know, doctors in the States if we needed. So that's how life just kind of unraveled.

So stayed in Greece till I graduated from high school, decided that I was going to be Miss Independent, and I left my family home, two suitcases, and traveled all the way back to the U. S., thinking that, oh, Going to the U. S., great land of opportunity, land of accessibility and wonder. And in the sense that the streets are paved with gold, but actually they're not, but I'm going to get to do what I want.

I'll learn how to drive a car.  Life is just going to be great. Only then to realize that I must have been living in like a dream world, uh, because the harsh reality of it was that no, it may look nice on the outside, but when you get Into the nitty gritty, you're, you're found to be in a situation where the environment and society does not work for you.

And even though there are laws in place, they're not always followed. And so there was that struggle. But I, you know, persevered, went to university, was gonna join the Peace Corps, made it through the final interview stages, was really, really excited. Decided to then go back to Greece because I was waiting for a placement.

The placement never came, had to start a job, and so that's my, that's when I began to teach. So I prefer to call myself as an inclusive educator now, previously I would say special education teacher, but  not a fan of those labels yet again. So from that note, I started teaching in 1992 and I was I was sadly asked to stop teaching in the spring of 2024, again, not by choice. 

I became quite ill when I traveled overseas back home to Greece, ended up in a Greek hospital for two weeks, came back to Finland where they're quite well known for their healthcare only to be maltreated. And I didn't receive any help, so I've gone from being a bit mobile now in my later years, to being completely bedridden, relying on nursing care and personal assistant care, sleeping in my living room in a hospital bed.

Because now, sadly, the government, even here in Finland, has decided that if you're foreign, you don't speak Finnish, you have a disability. Then why should we help you? You need to go into a old age home, which is not what I'm ready for. So that's a little bit of my background. I also taught in Moscow, Russia for seven years.

I taught in England and then I now have been in Finland for almost 15 years. So yeah. That's basically it in a nutshell. Well, firstly, I absolutely love your title of inclusive  educator. And I just want to say thank you from us, your beloved community for your 30 Two years of service,  and I can tell that your spirit and energy and intention it well, it's so crystal clear.

I mean, it just shines through you all the way to me here in Los Angeles, and I'm I'm so grateful. for you. You have for certain have paved the way for so many of us. And you and I are both seventies babies. So, you know, I see you, um, were a lot different back then for so many different reasons. And, um,  and you know, I feel frustrated with you.

About not being able to receive the care that you need and so if there's any way that our community can help we will continue this conversation next because it's very important for your voice and Your energy and your presence to be felt by as many people as possible. So thank you I will share that with you and I I also want to ask you a little bit about your poetry because I I know that that is something that you, you've been published in a couple of publications at this point.

And can you maybe tell us a little bit more about what poetry means to you and  your wish for that? I think I came about The poetry in sort of a  really deep way. I, I think looking up at a white ceiling for the amount of days and months that I had with like, no, no hope, no, no one to really understand what I was going through, not just on a visual level, but like a deeper level and not really getting the chance to get to know me and understand where I've come from, where I've been, what I still feel like I have the power to do.

It was that frustration and that sort of like, it's like my mouth is open and I'm screaming, but nobody's hearing me and it has taken me, let's see, I'm 54 now, we'll be 55. It has taken me 52 years to say to everyone that knows me or doesn't know me that I'm proud to be disabled. Um, I use disabled as one of my pronouns.

In fact, that has not always been the case. On some level, subconsciously, I knew that I was.  But there was always this need to be like everyone else, to fit in, to not rock the boat, to not ask for help, to not advocate for my needs. So I think the poetry came from that. The poetry was like, you know what, this is just going to be my release. 

This is going to be not shutting up. Finding my voice, making people, even those directly around me, family and friends, really be uncomfortable because you know what, for so long, I've been the one that's uncomfortable and I've swallowed and I've not said anything and I've not fought and I've not been vocal and it wasn't something I did.

Intentionally, it just happened, and I happened to, I'm a member of Diversability LLC, that's Tiffany  Yu's baby, for lack of a better word. And I love, because that's how I used my words in poetry form.  And I'm going to get this young woman's name wrong. Her name is Genesis Gutierrez and she has her online magazine called Harness Magazine, which empowers women to share their stories.

And so that's how all of it started. And I just on a whim. I threw something out there, sent it, it was accepted for publication, and I was like, oh, somebody wants to read what I have to say. And not because it's required because it's for a class or, you know, it's for professional development. And I was like, oh, wow, this feels kind of nice.

You know, and, and to be honest, you know, I've struggled with a lot of mental health issues in the past because of all of the traumas, including this one. And so I had to dig deep within myself to find what had been hidden for so long. So. That's where the poetry's come, come from, you know, I'm not saying that I'm, you know, exceptional and, and, you know, I'm going to go off and, you know, publish volumes and volumes of poetry, but I feel that what I have to say resonates with.

Many people, women, you know, men, trans,  homosexuals, whatever, because at some point we've all experienced trauma, and we are still experiencing trauma, and with what's happening, especially in the United States right now, we need to have an outlet. So that's where the poetry came from, which is now leading to more, like, more educational articles that are being published.

Like the most recent one in the international educator. And I still have a couple of projects that I'd like to kind of get off the ground, but sadly those require capital, which is kind of hard to come by when you're, you know, your income and your livelihood has been just kind of ripped from under you, but getting there.

So, yeah. Getting there. Well, I, as a, Reiki practitioner, which is also a hat that I wear, which, by the way, is not anything I was seeking out. It just absolutely decided for me that this is what is going to be part of you, Susanna. And I embrace that and I feel that when we hold so much in, all of the feelings, it's like our body keeps the score.

You know, the trauma, the experiences, the staying quiet, the being silent, the nodding, the not wanting to ruffle any feathers, not wanting to rock the boat, like you said, not wanting to have any conflict. No, no, no, it's okay. It's okay. Right. So we just continue to play small and small and smaller and smaller and smaller.

And so I feel as you were talking about your poetry, the reason why I think that you are receiving such a response from the people is that you are finally able to express yourself. Nix, right? Your full, authentic, whole and complete and perfect expression. And that to me, like the word release is one of the, the, the healthiest things that we can do for ourselves.

I feel it. It's been brewing for a while and I just maybe didn't know, you know, what that. And for right now, present moment, that's what's allowing me to feel that that's what I can do.  And it, it, it frees me from  this idea of being a burden, being a burden to myself, being a burden to my family, being a burden to my friends,  and also realizing that this last traumatic experience really let me see.

Who are my ride or die, we'll pick up the phone, you know, we'll come and visit from across the miles. Haven't seen them for, you know, 20, 30, 40 years, and it feels good, but it's also quite painful. Because I'm also finding that my social circle is getting smaller, not by my choice, but by the choices of others who can't understand or be empathic about it.

And it's okay if they don't know how to do that, you know, uh, my heart is still open, you know, for them, I've not. Closed doors, but I don't know. Yeah. It's that burden word that just, it's like that little, little snippet on my shoulder going, Oh, you know, don't forget if you take some time for yourself, Oh, look what it means.

You know, I don't know if it ever goes away.  That is, I want to acknowledge you for that. That hit me to like a dagger to my heart in terms of just how I've felt in my own life for various reasons. Other reasons how I feel when I bring my daughter around to various functions, family included. Next, um, just a quick little story.

And I know this will resonate with you, but still very painful. My father is. From Taiwan. He was born and raised. He immigrated here. He met my American mother in the 60s as UCLA students. He was supposed to go back to Taiwan. He ended up staying here, marrying my mom 53 years later, they're still married, have five kids, 12 grandkids.

It's delicious. Great. And, you know, my daughter was born with myriad disabilities, diagnoses. She likes to identify as capable. She is very proud of her being an A disabled young adult, she just turned 18 and it's, it's been hard and culturally you'll know, since you've lived in so many different places, there are so many different responses and reactions to disability, both, you know, visible and invisible.

So anyway, the first time I was, you know, I spent a lot of summers in Taiwan. I've been to Taiwan multiple times. The majority of my family's there. And the first time I wanted to bring my daughter Arizona, my dad said no. And I said, well, I, I mean, I'm not asking, I'm just, I know it's really challenging to try.

It was, it's very challenging to travel with her. There are so many different layers. And I was like, but this is important. This is, you know, our cultural background and family. And, and he said, no, Susanna, because people will not understand her. And it was honestly at like,  and he was, he wasn't even trying to be, he was just like very literal and saying, Susanna, it's, it's just going to be too hard now since then things have changed and shifted.

And I've had the opportunity to take her with me and be able to educate my family at the same time. Right. So, but isn't it that family is the hardest to educate? Oh, next. I mean,  there, there are so many, like I said, okay. Like I was telling you before in one of our emails, this is Nick's and Susanna part one. 

Okay. So we are going to have multiple conversations and actually on that note,  I'm just going to pause so we can have a brief word from our sponsor rise advocacy. I'm so grateful that they are sponsoring season eight.  This episode is sponsored by Rise Educational Advocacy. I will never forget Ryan's first IEP.

I was so nervous, so scared, that he would not get the services and support he needed as he entered the school district at age three. Every IEP in the beginning years was so nerve wracking. Every transition to a new school felt so fragile. If you are in need of expert advice for your IEP or 504, RISE Educational Advocacy is there for you. 

If you need a better IEP or 504 for your child, teen, or young adult, RISE can help. They offer in-person and virtual special education advocacy to families nationwide. Find them@riseeducationaladvocacy.com and follow them on YouTube and Instagram at Rise Ed Advocacy. 

So I love asking guests like, what is bringing you joy right now in this moment? And I feel like poetry is one of those things. Can we also talk about your toy poodle, please? Of course.  Of course. Is he a source of joy? I can honestly say that if it wasn't for the unconditional love that that little bundle of fur on four legs has given me, I may not be sitting opposite you right now speaking to you at this moment. 

I've never had the joy of being.  I'm a human parent, but I feel like I'm a dog parent and don't mess with me and don't you even tell me anything negative about my dog because you will suffer.  But no, he, he is my joy and, and it was a challenge for me to, it wasn't a challenge for me to make the decision.

To have him, to, to, to get him. It was a challenge trying to convince those nearest and dearest to me that I needed this. I needed someone in my life that took me away from just going to work, coming home. I needed to have someone to pour my love into. That would just look at me with those eyes and be like, Well, you're the best mama in the world.

Like, if I could stay by your side, then, all day, then that's what I do. And I had gotten him also with the intent that I would bring him to my workplace. And to provide, I worked with high school students. Which, you know, it's a very challenging time. It's very stressful. It's a lot of upheaval. And the times that I did bring him in so that, He could visit.

My students would just come in and cuddle him. And even my colleagues would be like, Oh my God, I just need, just need a moment. You know, and so that, that was the, that was the purpose. You know, here's this little thing that just wants to be loved on. And you know, I'd bring him to work and he would be there for two, three hours and he wouldn't bark.

He wouldn't pee. He wouldn't, he would just play and just be like, okay, you're not feeling well. Let me just love on you too. And he, and I think by nature, poodles are very sensitive. And very, very caring. The day I got him, I was so excited. I can remember it like it was yesterday. He was seven weeks old.

That's the time that they're able to like, leave their mama. And he actually, um, the, his breeder, who's become a very good friend of mine. She, they lived like four hours away. So she brought him down in a car. Cause I couldn't travel to get him. She literally like put him in my arms and he fell asleep on my chest for two hours.

And I was sobbing. That, that was it. I was like, it could thunder. It could, we could have an earthquake.  This, this is me. And I always used to say, Oh, I'm, I'm never going to be one of those dog moms that like goes above and beyond. Well, this little monster has just about everything. I have no money. He's going to get something right.

I go to the store because I don't get a chance to go out very much. I'm going to buy him something. I'm in pain. He knows exactly where to go. He knows exactly where to sit. He knows exactly where to put his head when I'm lying in the bed. He knows exactly when to lick away my tears if we're out in public and he's.

You know, we're taking him on a walk. One of the reasons why I also got him was that I, I've trained him to do his business in the bathroom  because I can't take him out first thing in the morning and it's the weather here is quite snowy and icy, but if we're out in public, he will run my friends and assistants ragged, like to try to like, cause they have to chase him.

And he's on the lead, of course. But with me, he's just like right by my side. He does one of these things like.  This is me. I'm with my mama and he'll just look up at me like when we stop at like a curb to go down and When we go to cross the street and when we go a little bit faster If you see somebody in a wheelchair like out in public He will go to them and you know put his paw on them or like put his head up to be cuddle Like I don't know where that comes from And some of the people in this neighborhood are elderly and so that you just see the joy that they just feel, you know, and we don't speak Finnish and he's got curly hair at the top of his head and he just craves that.

So yeah, he's just my, he's just my sisu. He is. You know,  I always like to share with fellow fur baby parents is that we just, we don't deserve them. We don't. No, we just don't. They just. They just have this healing, it's unexplainable, but it is just infinite enhancement. Even if they're sick or even if they're, you know, not feeling well, or even if they're having behavioral issues, whatever, what have you, it's like, we just don't deserve them.

And I just wanted to tell you this tiny quick story about the name Sisu. When I was reading your bio and I saw about your toy poodle named Sisu, I had like an instant like. First of, I don't know, love, connection, joy, because, uh, you know, Sisu is obviously not a very common name, at least not, I've never heard it before.

And so when one of my nephews who have a really, really special bond with was born, he's now, how old is he now? Eight, seven. When he was born, you know, all of my nieces and nephews always called me Auntie Sisu. Auntie Susie. Okay. Auntie Susie. Auntie Susie. And he couldn't quite, you know, get the Susie right.

And so he always called me Sisu. Oh, okay. Do you know what the word Sisu means? Tell me. Tell me. Oh my gosh. It's a Finnish term. Okay. And it encompasses like resilience and ability to like overcome any challenges and like fight for what's right. It's a very Nordic characteristic. When you have Sisu, you have like, you've got balls to the nth degree.

Do you know what I mean? Like nobody's going to mess with you.  Yes. And that's how I feel as an advocate. So, so that's, so that's what your nephew feels about you. Okay. You're that person that's got, you know, that's not going to be quiet. You're going to no, no, no, no, no, no, absolutely. So that's. Probably why.

Okay. So I'm going to call a family zoom as soon as possible and just let everybody my new spectacular title out of the from the mouths of the the Nordic gods and goddesses. That's right. There you go. Okay. I love that. I'm so glad I was able to share that with you and you were able to share that with me.

That me too. My little glimmer of joy today. See Sue  forever. That's right. So, okay. So just What is one thing, and I know that, you know, you're, you're having some big feelings about, you know, the vibe of the times, um, in terms of even, you know, what's happening in America. And what is one sort of last thing you'd like to share with our listeners that you feel could be supportive to our community?

Well, I think I, I, I want to say that there's a negative vibe that's associated with having a visible or non visible disability and there's a fear, there's a fear of not belonging, there's a fear of not having a home, there's a fear of not Being able to live the life that one deserves, right? And so I was inspired by a colleague who has two sons who are autistic.

They've been raised overseas. Their mother is their biggest advocate, which is wonderful. And there was something that was going around LinkedIn. It was someone by the name of Rebecca Tarrant, and she created this visual. That's of the American flag and underneath she wrote, my disabled child is no longer welcome in America.

And she posted it with her thoughts and feelings. And so I looked at that and I thought,  that's what so many others are feeling. for their children and about their children. But I'm going to take it one step further. I'm going to take that and say that I am the child. Now the adult  who doesn't feel like she's welcome in America. 

That's not what I expected. That's not. I don't think that's, that was not in my capacity to even comprehend that we don't belong,  that we deserve to die, that we deserve to be ridiculed, we deserve to live in fear, just like people who love whoever they love, people who come into the country and work really, really hard for a better life, and yet they're yanked.

Why is there so much hate? Where is this coming from?  So I think as difficult, as, as painful as it was to like write those words to paper and then actually post it on various platforms, it hurt to my core. And I don't think it's a trauma that any one of us is ever going to get over fully because anyone can be disabled at any point in time.

That's right. It doesn't have to be because you're born with it. You could wake up one day and have a series of migraines. Well, guess what? That's going to impact how you go about your day. Your son or daughter can go to school and participate on a sports team and sprain their ankle. You know, why are we not just being kind to one another?

Have your opinion. Have your thought. Have your religious belief, but treat me like a human being. I still breathe, I still feel, I still see, I still do the things, even in my own way, even if I don't, even if I'm blind or even if I'm hard of hearing, I'm a person. Just because I appear to have like a thick skin doesn't mean that my heart isn't breaking on the inside.

So I don't know if that's a message, but I just want to say that they're not, people with disabilities are not alone. And those of us that can speak, we'll speak for those that can't. When we can't speak, for whatever reason, for however long, we hope that somebody else will carry the torch. Because if that post makes you uncomfortable, good.

If that post makes you think about something or be like, Oh, now I get why my friend so and so doesn't want to come out with us because every time we go out, they can't get into the establishment that we're going to. Or when they're walking out with their assistant, they get talked to like they're five.

And to be honest, I don't have a home. I thought, I felt like I had a home in Finland 14 years ago. I would have said, yes, this is the place that I would have ended up because women and children and people with disabilities were revered here. We're taken care of the social health system worked. There were things in place now. 

What do you think, Nix, I know that you have been proactive in connecting with representatives. How else do you think, other than just speaking, sharing? Right. I would say, you know, follow disabled people on social media. Yeah. Read books written and poetry written by disabled authors. Watch movies with actors who are actually disabled.

You know, look at your surroundings and, and, and see how you can make life easier. You know, don't take the little tiny things for granted because one day those little things might not be available to you anymore. You know, ask questions, reach out, volunteer, just educate yourself on one thing even, you know.

It's a start. You know, I know that you all in California have had horrible experiences just recently with the fires. You know, think about all the disabled people that couldn't get out. Raise awareness for something. Reach out. If you have a disabled family member, a friend, reach out to them. Connect with them.

Find out if they're okay. You know, don't look at us like we're scum on the bottom of your shoe. You, you're not gonna get what we have. We're not contagious. We're, we're human beings, you know, and if you don't know anything, tell me, ask me. You know, I'll be as truthful as I can and I'll walk that path with you.

Just don't be afraid of it. And I know it's, it's scary, right? I mean, it's scary for the person who's dealing with it and it's scary for the person who doesn't know. But if we don't act as a collective unifying force, Then it's only going to get worse from here because sadly people in high powered positions don't see the value of all human beings.

So if this hate and distrust has been brewing under the surface for many, many years, then now it's time for those of us that have been the recipients of that hate to turn it around and, and, and. Make it positive. If not what it was like before, make it even better. Strengthen numbers? I don't know. Listen, I believe, you know, I believe we have that power and this was the best conversation with the right person at the right time, Nix.

Well, I'm glad. And I, I also want to for sharing so vulnerably. And so truthfully, and so authentically, I agree, like, discomfort is not a bad thing, you know,  change needs to come, we need to affect it, we need to be sort of like proactively seeking it out, and I believe, yes, we have that power, and I feel hopeful and optimistic about the future, about my daughter's future, and I will keep on keeping on, I would just like to end with, If people want to reach out to you and learn more about you, where can they find you?

Find me on LinkedIn. I'm still on Facebook, only because I still want to make people uncomfortable. I don't agree with the policies that be, but I'm not going to be. Shut down. I'm also on Instagram and threads. You can email me. I'm working right now for a, for a nonprofit international organization called SENYA, which is Special Education Network Inclusion Association.

So look us up there. It provides a lot of support for families and for students who are navigating all of this. All of these issues, both internationally and in the U. S. Yeah, reach out, connect, and I'll do my best to answer, you know, give advice, support. But what I also want to tell you, Suzanne, is you as a caregiver of A daughter with a disability, it's really important that you reach out as well and that you understand that what you're doing, being your daughter's biggest cheerleader, even though they might not be able to say it to you now, believe me when I tell you when they get to be my age, they'll say it.

And they'll appreciate it. So when it appears to be, you know, a dark moment for you, if you're feeling like, oh, nobody's hearing me, we hear you. I hear you. Use that sisu. I was about to say, can I call myself mama sisu? Absolutely. I'm sure mama sisu would be like, okay, I got another mama. She lives in California.

When are we going to bring her over to Finland? Cause I can't travel anymore. Right? I have to come to Finland.  That, you would love it. Seems so fresh, barring like, barring all the political ick. This is like nature, country, lakes.  It sounds beautiful. Again, I'm so grateful for this conversation. I love how everything works out in terms of timing and connection and energy.

And, and so I look forward to continuing our fight together  and. Are making other people uncomfortable.  Yes. Um, I am glad to be in the company. with you. Thank you. The feeling is mutual. So, and thank you to all your listeners and who knows when our paths may meet. Yeah. You never know. Yeah. You never know.

And just, even though we will have all of the links for Nicole, AKA Nick's in our show notes, I just want to let you all know who are just listening and not able to review the show notes that you can do a search on Nicole Demos, N I C O L E. Last name Demos, D E M O S. And I will also just leave you her Instagram handle as well, which is N I X D E M O S, at Nix Demos.

And then you can find more information from there. So just wanted to leave our listeners with that. Thank you so much. I forgot to say that I'm a white woman with white hair, purple glasses.  For those of you that. Needed to get a face with a name. Yeah. Forgot about that. Yeah. It's one of the first things, right?

Listen, all good. And, and, Toy Poodle Sisu is a black little toy poodle. That's right. And he might make a guest appearance the next time, who knows?  Right.  Yes. If there's treats involved. In all his splendor and goodness. Absolutely. So you, thank you very much. You have a Thank you Nicks, and you have a beautiful evening.

I know it's bedtime for you over there. Um, yeah. Just about. Yeah. And, but that's good. I'm going, I'm going to bed with a smile on my face. Yay. So that's a definite plus over the night before, so, okay, good. We take, we take all those victories as yes, as big ones. So thank you very much. 

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